There shall come a new era, there shall grow a new man
a heart that wishes to serve
new words shall be spoken, feelings shall be improved
coloring the sky of a new being
Hello, folks, this is another episode of "Podser".
This is Thiago Franklyn and...
"At last, at a certain moment,
you asked in tears for someone to find you
some medicine or resource for your anguish,
frustrations, suffering and depression.
That's why we are here, asking with all due respect:
try forgiveness."
From the book "Joia", by Emmanuel, psychographed by Chico Xavier.
So let us begin another episode of "Podser".
Well, my name is Haroldo Dutra Dias
and my sentence is:
"Jesus transplanted from Palestine to the region of the Cross
the magnanimous tree of His Gospel,
so that His delicate children would blossom again,
bearing fruit in works of love for all creatures."
Good afternoon, my name is Gisella Amorim
and my sentence is:
"As if a symbolic pigeon brought news
from a steadier world, after a new deluge."
Good afternoon, I'm Alexandre Caroli Rocha
and my sentence is:
"Our brother Humberto has, on this subject,
a vast field of work to explore, with his ease to express himself
and the spirit of congeniality he possesses as a writer,
in view of the general mentality of Brazil.
By Chico Xavier and Emmanuel.
I am João Romário and my sentence
is by Eurípedes Barsanulfo: "Powerful is the sun of truth."
Hello, I'm Aluizio Elias and my sentence is from the book
"Brasil, Coração do Mundo, Pátria do Evangelho",
to resemble "Podser" as much as possible:
"First came the Indians, who were simple at heart,
then came those who longed for divine justice,
and later on there would come the slaves,
as the expression of the humble and the afflicted,
to form the collective soul of a people
blessed by their meekness and fraternity."
I'm Gladston Lage
and the sentence I propose for our reflection is by Paul:
"Nothing can separate us from God's love,
not illness, nor higher powers, nor an abyss, nor death."
All right, folks. Welcome and please be at ease,
we've prepared this decoration
of an 18th or 19th century farm in Minas Gerais
for you to be quite comfortable.
I'll start by asking our friend João Romário
where, in these new lands, lies the corner of the world
from which we can see, in the infinite space,
the symbol of human redemption.
To answer a question made by Jesus is no easy task.
You have to practice before you answer.
- We want you to tell the story. - I'll tell the story of the Cross.
Just to remind you, João Romário is a journalist.
You'll recognize him from Ceará, with his powerful voice.
But spiritism teaches us something fantastic,
which is versatility.
The spiritist is many things, likes to do many things.
And João Romário is passionate about astronomy.
And it is not one of those casual passions.
He really buys telescopes and studies
and we decided to talk to him
to get to know about the Southern Cross.
So tell us the tales of the Southern Cross.
The passion is so great that I'd like to get a college degree in Physics
and go deeper in this. But until now I only have my courses.
What I could find out,
from that sentence and other provocations...
Once Julio Adriano said: "Take a look at this link."
So I checked the link on Facebook
and it was about a very curious event.
An event that, to most people might sound a little surreal.
The link said the Southern Cross was last seen in Jerusalem
at the time of Jesus' crucifixion, and since then, not anymore.
-At first, I thought it was strange. -Oh my...
As a phenomenon, it sounded odd, so I did some research.
I found out that the Southern Cross had indeed moved since then.
Rigorously, this movement happens every year, all the time,
but it is so slow, so slow
that it is imperceptible throughout a man's life or several men's lives,
only throughout thousands of years.
At the time of Christ, the Cross was indeed visible
- and not only that. - Oh my...
Basing myself on your research,
on texts of yours I found on the "Reformador" magazine,
about the probable date of Jesus' crucifixion,
I did my research and it was so interesting to find out
that not only the Cross was visible at the time,
but probably at the very day when Jesus was crucified,
the Cross was in full view as soon as the sun made it visible.
As soon as the sun allowed it, the Cross was in full view.
There was a full moon that night,
so the full moon was glowing over those souls
immersed in the darkness of all the sadness for that moment.
Since then, the Southern Cross has indeed been gradually hiding
in the horizon, so much so that at the time of the Crusades,
when men misinterpreted the Gospel so,
to the point of killing each other for so-called pieces of Jesus' cross,
travelling miles and miles to kill in the name of Gospel,
at that time the Cross was not visible anymore.
- And it's when the book starts. - You see? Our synchronicities.
Jesus is talking to Hellil at the time of the Crusades.
- Almost at the end. - At the end of the Crusades.
And indeed...
- With King Saint Louis. - Saint Louis.
One of the authors of the Codification.
Did you imagine that, Caroli? Neither did I!
Did you imagine, Gisella? Nothing, right?
And what's curious is that, indeed,
thinking of this synchronicity that we've seen,
from the time Jesus said what Humberto tells us,
at the time Jesus was speaking,
around the 14th or 15th century, around that time,
the symbol of human redemption, the Southern Cross,
was only visible in the Southern Hemisphere,
in South America, particularly in Brazil.
It's a didactic question, a question made by Jesus,
and there are people who think there's an innocence...
Wouldn't Jesus know where the Cross was? Of course.
But it's a pedagogic question.
A provocative question for a reflection of that level.
Good that you said that, because we enter Gladston's theme,
and he's too quiet. Caroli and Gisela also.
Let's go into your theme, Gladston. The issue of management.
Something that calls my attention in the book
is the reality of the dialogue. There's no joking around.
At a certain moment, Hillel is frantic when he looks for Jesus.
He says: "Lord, the nation you gave me to watch over,
Portugal, is going through such and such,
allow me to do something."
There are moments when Ishmael comes crying.
And we can't understand Jesus asking Hillel such a question.
He doesn't come with complete answers.
"Gather round, everybody, I'll give you an order." No.
He always comes asking a question: "Where?"
"How is my doctrine coming along?"
And that is Gladston's theme, spiritual management.
It's as if He were sharpening, in His messengers,
the spirit of solution for that challenge.
Or else the experience wouldn't have evolutionary value
for Hillel, for Ishmael. Do you think so too?
I'll plagiarize what you said
- because I hadn't thought of it. - No? Great!
But my silence is justified, let me explain it.
These invitations bring about an existential crisis when friends...
And as spiritists, we must work on our feelings...
You just ask me to explain the psychology of Jesus and Ishmael,
I'm so grateful to you for that, terribly happy.
- My silence has lasted several days. - You see I am your friend?
You write those lyrics, people think you can handle these simple things.
I always say the lyrics are...
I'm the greatest living proof of mediumship,
proof that Jesus draws water from stone,
it's obvious.
I was telling them once I was at a spiritist event, COJEREME,
don't know if any of you were there,
but I heard people were looking for Gladston Lage,
so I hid, but they found me and brought a guitar:
"Play 'Aurora' for us." I don't play the guitar.
It seems that's my fate. But let's go.
Regarding the theme...
First of all, about Jesus...
When Emmanuel comments
on similarities between the life of Socrates,
spiritist precursor, and Jesus' life,
we are faced with this.
This week we were reading and commenting on Socrates.
At a time when Greeks were too worried about sophismas,
which is an attempt at a rhetoric duel,
and to win debates by making lies sound true,
Socrates defended the importance
of the good, the beautiful, the truth.
And he did that through questions.
When we say that...
We have answers for many questions,
but we don't know we have them.
So one thing I was thinking about our government -
the country's and the planet's... You know the question:
"Do spirits have any influence on our life?"
"Greater than you suppose,
for very frequently it is they who guide you."
So by analogy, we imagine that's what Ishmael does:
he governs us, but we still take part in the government.
Because if they draw too near, our free will is hindered.
So when we see this chaos... That's the reason for my quote.
I should warn you: I always start from the middle
- and I stay in the middle. - That's ok.
Something that's essential...
We're looking for words here and it's great
because people looked for words and Jesus said:
"What did you go see? A straw shaken by the wind?"
They had gone to see John the Baptist round the river...
I don't know the name of the river, Haroldo, don't ask me.
To listen to him.
When we look for words, we must remind ourselves that:
we are not without government, we are not adrift,
Jesus is not sad or sorry,
there's no reason for us to fear things that happen or might happen,
otherwise we're professing a faith we don't believe in.
As far as Ishmael, by analogy,
when you have someone nice working with you and for you,
you feel safe when you ask something, it's in good hands.
When Jesus hands it over to Ishmael,
we should notice to whom we are entrusted.
- Exactly. - And you said I was too quiet...
Before I ask Gisella... This has to do with her theme,
but let me address Caroli now.
For those who don't know Caroli, he's very quiet, let me warn you.
But he's a genius.
This is the man who wrote a Master's dissertation
on the book "Parnaso de Além-Túmulo".
And his Doctor's thesis is on the work of Humberto de Campos.
He's that voice in the Academy today,
shedding lights in a very subtle,
very delicate,
but very profound and dense manner,
bringing spirituality to the academic reflection.
And I'd like to ask you... Something that strikes us,
since we're talking of the Cross and of management,
is how Humberto de Campos
weaves the threads of this work from a literary point of view.
How he does it. It's genius, isn't it?
Actually, in my thesis on Humberto de Campos,
I didn't mention "Brasil, Coração do Mundo" much.
Yes.
However, reading the book recently
and the material I had raised before,
I realized the textual links the book establishes
with several interesting sources
such as, for instance,
if we think of Humberto de Campos
before he was deceased,
we must remember he was never a spiritist.
Yes.
His family was Catholic,
then he lost his faith in his youth,
then he couldn't believe in God nor adopt any religion,
although he greatly admired
those who were able to have faith and religion,
he respected them
and said he'd like to be capable of that.
- How about that! - But he couldn't.
At that time, something relevant
is that Humberto de Campos was very interested
in Brazilian history.
So as an intellectual,
writing daily for Brazil's main newspapers,
he had to be informed of many subjects.
One of the subjects that most interested him
was the history of Brazil, of the Brazilian culture
and how to understand it in its different manifestations.
He also had an interesting point of view,
different from what we conceive today,
which was to link History and literary writing.
How about that! That's the chronicler, right?
And he thought that a work of History
couldn't be a database,
but that there should be craftsmanship
in the writing of the story...
for instance, thinking of men of letters
who wrote great books on historical events,
such as Euclides da Cunha,
who wrote about the War of Canudos,
or other great names in Literature,
such as Homer, and so on.
He had that characteristic.
By studying the work of Chico Xavier
signed by Humberto de Campos,
we can notice a dialogue
not only with this cultural repertoire
showed by Humberto de Campos
in relation to Brazilian history,
but also, in a different way,
with spiritist references.
We can speak more about that later on.
I was talking to Caroli about this interest of Humberto's
in his last phase as an incarnate author...
"Brasil, Coração" is the second book,
but in the 1st book, "Crônicas de Além-Túmulo",
I'd say half of the chronicles are on Brazilian history.
So his 1st book is basically chronicles on Brazilian history.
The second one is "Brasil, Coração do Mundo".
Will you allow me to make a dream come true in a podcast?
Cameras, please.
This is the spirit of the podcast.
Friends in a living room
having a chat on spirituality.
Gisela, dear...
- See how this... - Go ahead.
When one unwittingly opens "Brasil, Coração do Mundo",
one can't imagine all this.
But there's something we can't imagine, we think...
And that is your theme in the book.
We believe that, when Humberto begins
to take the symbolic-religious-spiritual
and mix it with History,
that it is too cutting-edge, never done before.
But it doesn't seem so.
It seems Brazilian history is full of it.
Actually, I'm very grateful to him as a historian
because he made me see, in the historic sources,
things that my academic formation didn't allow me to see.
In the sense that sources have symbols,
representations, codes, we might say,
which are there, not for us to see,
but they're there, alive.
There's a historian, Huizinga, that says History
is like a bouquet of flowers,
and as each historian reinterprets the same theme,
as another one comes with a new perspective,
it's as if each one added a flower.
Humberto wasn't a historian, but he read History in a way
which allowed me to understand, with the thesis he brought,
but most of all with the outlook he brings,
the manner in which he wrote the story,
with a pedagogic perspective which comes from Jesus,
he allowed me to see in the sources -
especially sources that most people know
and read through other people's eyes -,
things that are very important.
So, actually... my intention was to try
to recognize in some of them,
like the letter of Pero Vaz de Caminha,
and others I worked on,
a key concept,
which is Brazil as the homeland of the Gospel.
So in this perspective
of consulting the source in a different way,
- on a different light, with... - The historic source, you mean.
- The historic source. - Caminha's letter.
It's a letter almost all of us had contact with,
it's in almost all the History books,
it is widely known, widely used in publicity...
It is considered Brazil's birth certificate,
although historiography tells us there were similar ones,
because Caminha was not
the official scribe of Cabral's fleet,
but it was hidden for almost 3 centuries.
Manuel Aires de Casal found it...
It was actually discovered a little earlier,
but he published it in 1817.
So from 1500 to 1817, three long centuries went by
when no other news so complex and full of details
was allowed to us from that period.
But it's not about the importance of the letter,
historiography has already shown us that.
What Humberto de Campos made me realize as a historian
is that there was much more to the letter
than what historians saw. I'm not bringing anything new.
He just said: "Look, read again."
The idea of the homeland of the Gospel
was born in the letter
and it's in the essence of the birth of Brazil,
if we can call Brazil's birth the arrival of Cabral.
But the encounter of the two peoples
is the kickstart of the birth of a new nation.
But what called my attention is that this document
brings representations, codes...
We have a long theoretical tradition
to work with the concept of representation,
especially Ginzburg,
an Italian historian who speaks of signs.
If the historian's a detective, we must find the signs, right?
The microhistory. When I returned to Caminha's letter,
I found on the first parts
the reference to Belém, Portugal,
and a new understanding of what a historic source is
came to me from this new reading.
All of this from one concept of homeland of the Gospel.
You said there were similar letters to Caminha's,
and one of those was written
by an astronomer who accompanied Cabral,
and he referred to the Cross for the 1st time as a Cross.
It was one of the astronomers who wrote letters.
Soon after the 1st mass was conducted
he referred to the constellation of the Cross for the 1st time,
although it had always existed,
since there were incarnate spirits in civilizatory structures on earth,
but until then no one had referred to it as a cross.
- That astronomer whose name I... - Master João's letter?
- That's it. - He was a doctor as well.
He was everything, yes. Multiplicity seems to be...
And it's interesting what Romário said,
because it's not about the existence of the constellation.
It's not that. History, culture, civilization
is when symbols begin to have meaning,
when you convey a cultural meaning.
The constellation was there, but when you attribute...
For instance, Belém... When Caminha speaks of Belém...
It's a parenthesis that's more important than the reference itself.
In my text I worked with an author
who used references in painting.
And his questioning began with a hobby-horse.
He starts his meditations with a hobby-horse.
What is a hobby-horse? Is it a horse?
A substitute for a horse? No, it's much more.
The sense of correspondence, attribution of meaning,
the presence of something absent.
Representations are means of organizing the world.
They give a social organization
to ideas, to our values, habits,
and human beings organize themselves
through representations, codes.
They are not a fortuitous element,
they are a main aspect.
When you read a source,
it's a historian's obligation to demystify the source,
analyze it, put it to the test,
these representations acquire meaning.
A very strong iconography...
For instance, the symbol present in the Latin sails,
the cross, which is related to the financing of the trip,
which came from the Maltese Cross...
But behind that there is
an unconscious in action,
which we also find in the studies of Leviticus.
All the symbology of colors, dress, utensils, format...
All of that is present
in the encounter between the cultures...
There is something which is not necessarily said in words,
but it is said, and it's very strong:
the symbols, the colors. I remember talking to Gisella
about the colors in the flag and everything...
What's that story about Belém in Caminha's letter?
What's that all about?
Belém, or Bethlehem, is the nativity town,
Jesus was born in Belém,
- but that's not all. - You mean in Palestine.
In Palestine.
- It's also Joseph and David's town. - Exactly.
- And in Portugal? - In Portugal it's a dockland area,
created in the 14h century by Dom Henrique de Sagres,
no one less than...
Dom Henrique created it? Just by chance, right?
He created a dockland area
where today we have the famous Portuguese tarts...
Pastel de Belém.
We also have the Tower of Belém,
a very important monument in Portuguese history...
But a small chapel was created there
and its importance began to grow.
Then it...
What was just a dockland area turned into a spiritual region.
The navigators went there to be blessed before they left.
Soon after, not right away,
because that's not the dynastic hierarchy,
but Dom Manuel, almost a century later,
transforms that area created by Dom Henrique
into a completely different area, changing the monuments.
He hands it to an order, he builds the Tower of Belém...
It's as if he took a seed planted by Dom Henrique
and turned it into something monumental, for posterity.
And indeed other governments took property of it.
In the history of Brazil, when Caminha writes the letter,
he addresses Dom Manuel, who's financing the trip,
sending Cabral to this great voyage,
and Caminha says in the letter: "As you well know..."
If Dom Manuel knew, it was needless to say,
but he made a point of writing: "We took leave in Belém".
When he says that, he's telling us it isn't a fortuitous reference.
He's saying Belém is an area
whose meaning is related to the Gospel.
So then he gives meaning to it.
And I go back to the hobby-horse,
because the author says the horse is much more than meets the eye.
Indeed. Because representation is not about truth.
So Jesus wasn't born in this town of Belém,
but it doesn't matter,
because it's the sense of legitimacy, of correspondence,
more important than the truth.
Verisimilitude is more important there.
- Exactly. - So he inaugurates, Haroldo...
And I'll quote a sentence of yours, like Gladston did,
in the study of Leviticus...
If we refer to our ancestry, we're creating a divine correlation.
It's as if we were...
And for the meaning of the homeland of the Gospel
it makes even more sense,
because they took leave in Belém and Jesus was born in Belém,
If it's the homeland of the Gospel, it's Jesus' too,
they had to take leave there.
- The transplant. - The transplant.
Belém in Palestine, Belém in Portugal...
- Exactly. - A new birth here.
So this reference that most people pass by,
most historians, it acquires new meaning to us
when we think of the representation of the Gospel.
A reading from the standpoint of our evangelic references.
And Humberto de Campos' thesis gets even stronger,
the idea that there's something more to the arrival at the other side...
- To our story. - Exactly.
Aluizio, all this Gisella is saying has to do with the popular soul...
The collective soul.
These representations and symbols
have to do with people's hearts...
And your theme is the formation of the Brazilian people,
the people as far as multiple ethnic groups
and the people as far as a Brazilian soul as well.
Please tell us a bit about that, Aluizio.
While Gisella was speaking of the transplant from Belém...
It's interesting because my starting point
was when Humberto begins to compare Brazil
or at least Brazil's coast to Galilee.
There are strong characteristics
of cultural multiplicity in both regions.
So Jesus leaves Belém and goes to Galilee
and the ships leave Belém
for the expanded view of the Tiberias,
which would be Brazil.
And also "by chance", it has the same shape
of the Lake of Gennesaret, the map of Brazil.
We know that's "by chance".
But we never think
of what was Jesus' audience in the Sermon of the Mount.
That's great.
Because we imagine a bunch of Galileans, Jews,
and all other ethnic groups excluded,
and that was not the case. Galilee was a place formed
through a process of ethnic transmigration.
The Assyrian empire goes to Galilee,
disorganizes all kingdoms of the north,
the 10 tribes of the north,
and in order to hinder any possibility of resistance,
takes people from Mesopotamia to Galilee and vice-versa.
There begins the mixture of groups of Eastern ancient civilization.
Then come Helenism and the Roman empire.
To sum up, Galilee was called
Galilee of the gentiles, of the strangers,
because there were many people from several regions of the world.
When we read "2.000 Years Ago",
we see it in the description of the Sermon of the Mount,
and in the fact that the Lentulus family
- went to Capernaum. - True.
So the group that followed Jesus was multiple in an ethnical sense.
Of course the book won't dwell
on the theme of physical miscegenation,
on the mixture of physical characteristics
of several ethnic groups.
It's worried about another kind of miscegenation,
the moral miscegenation.
Because groups end up reinforcing
a certain moral quality,
emphasizing a certain moral achievement,
which will be added to the moral qualities of other people
and create a new product. That's what happens in Brazil.
So Humberto resorts to the Sermon of the Mount
to say that the ethnic groups that were here
had, as a more striking moral characteristic,
this simplicity of lifestyle.
The people who came here, the Europeans,
were those thirsty for justice and mercy,
because justice in the light of the Gospel is mercy,
and those who were blessed for being meek, the Africans,
learned to grow in suffering, in difficult situations.
With the fusion of these three moral elements,
you have a new element.
It's more than a mixture of Europeans Indians and Africans,
it's the fusion of moral characteristics.
As Olavo Bilac says, "amorous flower of three sad races".
And they'll make up an extremely joyful ethnic group.
That's very interesting.
To explain my silence, I've changed crisis now.
You know when you're in a talent show and everybody sings well,
and at some point you'll have to sing?
I know you envy my situation here.
'Cause you know... But...
- I'm saving my opinion for later... - Sure!
My expectation is to give Brazilians a hint,
because the letter says: "If you plant, it'll grow."
- If you plant, yes. - So later I'll speak of that.
But that's the reason for my silence.
You see someone climbing a mountain and you wanna learn.
Wow, they can go that high!
I can't climb but I can learn from them.
I don't have a problem with the group, ok?
I just ask for your prayer so I can handle being here.
But one thing: we comment on how Saul was prepared...
And when we talk about transplanting,
the story repeating itself,
at the time of the Hebrews they had problems with differences.
At the time of Jesus there was that challenge
that was personified in Saul, dealing with the Sanhedrin,
with the Greek culture... But the Greeks were slaves
and had a certain aversion to the Jews.
In that sense, we think:
Brazil is born with this challenge of plurality.
Because of the natives, the colonization instinct,
and we still have these basic problems,
this binary system, "me and my neighbor",
is always new.
That's why the Gospel is always good news.
- I'll return to this later on. - Great!
Because this "if you plant, it'll grow"
means we make choices.
In "Paul and Stephen", Emmanuel refers
to the superstition of some groups,
polytheism of others, promiscuity, gambling,
mediumistic gifts being commercialized...
So this mirror in a sense... It calls my attention.
The good news is that Ishmael governs us in Jesus' name,
the bad news is that we are the variables.
Our free will interferes with this rhythm and direction.
- But I'll comment later on. - Great!
Regarding what Gladston said about intolerance,
at the time Christ was on Earth, a second temple was being built
and it had a curious architecture: an external court, the gentile court.
I was gonna say that.
- So I stole Gladston's idea. - You stole it.
If I can do that, why didn't I steal "Aurora"?
- Yeah! - I stole the wrong idea!
'Cause "Aurora" means dawn, he wakes up too early.
So there was a gentile court,
the space in the temple where foreigners were allowed.
The other spaces were only for Jews.
It was a democratic space, where Jesus liked to preach,
where there were people from Egypt, Mesopotamia...
And there's that passage in Mark's gospel
that's wrongly interpreted,
part of it is interpreted in a very limited way,
the cleansing of the temple,
as if it were simply a reprimand on the commerce of faith,
and it's much more than that. Because what we notice
is that the presence of money-changers there
was a local strategy
to hinder the presence of foreigners.
The commerce was there to make it difficult for foreigners
to get to the gentile court.
Because the gentile court, according to the Jewish tradition,
although this is not in the Bible, but it is in the tradition,
the court was like an agora, anyone could go there and speak.
It was like in Greece.
People just showed up and began to talk.
And it turned into a space for cultural interchange.
Since the Hebrew people at the time felt like
owners of the temple, the chosen people,
that God was their God,
they didn't see that in a good light.
Of course money-changing was important,
for the 3 main feasts came Jews from all over.
But why was that place chosen for it, the space of conversation?
- And Jesus refers to the prophet... - Yes.
"The House of my Father shall be the house of prayer for all nations."
We don't see the symbolic, as Gisella said.
The text says it'll be the house of prayer for all nations,
it doesn't say for the Hebrews.
For all nations. And how did they spoil that?
Placing all the money-changing and animal-selling
where there should be a podcast.
The space for the podcast became a space for money-changing,
so Jesus shows through the so-called symbolic prophecy,
when the prophet, through gestures, through a prophetic performance,
wants to convey a message without any words,
a symbolic message, and so he cleanses the temple.
It's very interesting, because it shows Isaiah's prophecy,
saying the gospel is for all nations, for all peoples,
and recalls the theme of my chapter, which it's not ready yet.
- It's not ready, folks. - I'm the only one,
but I was preparing tomorrow's study.
- You're forgiven. - Only because of that.
Now, Caroli, from the standpoint of Humberto as a chronicler...
My chapter is the hermeneutic, Biblical part of the book.
And what did I notice when Aluizio asked me to write about that?
There's no joking around in Humberto de Campos.
The depth with which he plays with the hermeneutic symbols
is top notch, Roland Garros level, not amateur at all.
It's very deep. He knows exactly what he's talking about.
It's not random. And it's what we intend to show in our chapter.
First of all: "tree of the Gospel". Why a tree?
Take Gisella's sentence, for example.
"A steadier world..." Let's see her sentence.
"As if a symbolic pigeon brought news
from a steadier world, after a new deluge."
New deluge?
And he starts to throw this in the book:
new deluge, new exodus,
transplanted tree, extended view of the Tiberias...
He starts to throw this around. But why tree?
So we see that... Not to spoil tomorrow's lecture...
This whole story, which is a symbolic story,
a symbolic historiography,
begins with a garden. A garden full of trees
where the creature was in total communion with God
and lived in the intense process of love:
man, woman, God and a big garden.
And the whole story...
The whole story takes place...
What initiates the Biblical romance,
the Biblical literature
is what happened at the foot of a tree.
That goes unnoticed.
But what causes the expulsion from the garden of Eden
is something that happened at the foot of a tree.
But if you take the word in Hebrew for "tree"...
Then I'll reveal the article... Only the article, not the lecture.
The Hebrew word for "tree" is the same word for "cross".
So if I want to say "cross" or "tree" in Hebrew, it's the same word.
Now it gets a little...
The symbol for human fall is at the foot of a tree,
but human redemption begins at the foot of a cross,
which is the same thing, the same word.
Notice how the symbols are beautiful.
Humberto divides the symbol:
there's the tree of the science of evil and good,
the tree of life, meant to nourish,
but man prefers the science of good and evil.
And forming a partnership with the serpent,
he falls at the foot of a tree.
Human redemption takes place at the foot of a tree,
or "ets", in Hebrew, which also means "cross",
and how does it unfold?
Part of it goes to Heaven, the other part stays on Earth.
The part that goes to Heaven is the Southern Cross,
which is the symbolic part, which will be the guide,
but that was said on the 4th day of the book of Genesis.
God created the sun, the moon and the stars
to function as signs, to mark cycles, eras,
to divide day and night,
and needless to say, navigation is impossible without this.
So we have a tree in Heaven, the Southern Cross,
and a tree on Earth, which nourishes,
and this tree is transplanted to Brazil.
Which one? The one that nourishes.
Because the one in Heaven came by itself, as you were saying.
- Yes, yes. - Did it get too complicated?
No, something came to me. You inspired me.
It gets complicated because we don't know certain things...
What you said reminded me...
I was thinking of this when Gisella spoke...
Then you said it again, there's an interesting thing...
I selected a few pictures with Julio, I don't know if we can show them.
There's a subtle difference... Since it's there, I'll say it.
- I wasn't going to, but... - Now it's complicated.
When we look at the solar system, when we think of the solar system,
all planets orbit around the sun more or less aligned.
That exotic orbit is a comet.
The comets and some dwarf planets have rather odd orbits,
that's why they're not planets,
the planets that make up the habitable nucleus
of a solar system like ours
orbit around all aligned.
Like there's this ball, the sun, and this line.
There are slight differences in degree.
But there's a nuance. Go ahead, Julio.
Each planet, even if they're all aligned,
more or less aligned,
each one has a totally different inclination.
You see, Earth has this classic inclination of 23 degrees,
Venus has an inclination of 177 degrees.
- Seems it's standing up, but it's... - Upside down.
And it orbits in a different direction than all the others.
Uranus is lying down, as if it were rolling like a ball.
We could say many things, but that's not my point.
I just wanna show that, even thought planets are aligned,
each of them orbits with a specific inclination.
Go ahead, Julio.
And to understand this better, this inclination is fixed.
For instance, Earth doesn't orbit like this,
- it orbits all the time... - With the same inclination.
The axis pointing to the same direction.
The Sun is here and Earth goes...
It doesn't go this way and that way, it's always doing this.
It's what this picture means to show.
That's why we have the seasons of the year.
The north is always pointing one way, the south always pointing another,
with this inclination, in certain times of the year...
You can see at this time of year the south more exposed to the Sun,
so you have summer in the south and winter in the north.
Here it's the same, then it's the opposite, and so on.
What's it to do with what I want to say?
Throughout the life of one man or several men, you won't notice it,
but throughout thousands of centuries this subtle inclination changes.
It changes 20 minutes per year.
20 minutes per year. A year has more than 500.000 minutes.
Each year, 20 minutes change.
More or less like our moral transformation.
- More or less... - Each year, 20 minutes.
It changes, but very slowly.
Slow and steady.
It's so slow it takes approximately 25.722 years
to take this turn which I said doesn't exist.
It takes 25.722 for Earth to take a real turn.
And it was this turn that made the Cross become invisible.
Almost 26.000 years for Earth to move like this.
We know rotation, translation
and this is the precession of the equinoxes,
ia very slow movement, but it causes curious effects.
Why was the Cross visible and now it's not?
Precession. Earth twisted a bit...
The inclination is around 23 degrees, that doesn't change,
but the spot towards which Earth is oriented, did.
That's why the Cross slowly disappeared.
Everybody was nervous... Now time's up.
We'll have a break now.
So when Jesus was on the cross,
the tree that nourishes and the Cross
were at the same spot.
He left, the Cross hid in the south,
and the tree that nourishes hid...
later on we'll know where it went.
And I'll come back with a question for Caroli,
but now let's go to our break, if you wanna go the bathroom,
or appreciate the infographic, the paintings,
everything that was so carefully prepared,
especially from this partnership between SER and Meimei,
this spiritual work that drew breath from this partnership...
Let me thank all our dears...
The house of 70 women... not 7, but 70.
We'll be right back.
There shall come a new era there shall grow a new man
a heart that wishes to serve
new words shall be spoken feelings shall be improved
coloring the sky of a new being
I want to pass the ball now to Caroli, so that he...
Caroli, you were commenting on Humberto as a chronicler,
and how he liked to write everyday chronicles
narrating Brazilian history and so on.
From the stylistic point of view,
what can you say of Humberto while incarnate
and Humberto through Chico Xavier's psychography?
About the chronicle, if we go back a bit,
just to contextualize it better,
when Humberto lived in Belém, in Brazil...
- Belém back again. - What?
He began writing professionally in Belém, Pará,
at the beginning of the 20th century.
There he published his first book, a book of poems.
he began as a poet and a journalist.
So he was a journalist in Belém from 1909 until 1912,
then in 1912 he goes to live in Rio de Janeiro,
capital of Brazil at the time,
and there he consolidates his work as a writer and journalist.
And he worked with several literary genres,
especially with those that came from France,
including the literary chronicle.
The critics say that his main contribution
to the Brazilian literature
was in the chronicle genre,
though he became more well-known as a writer
for his memorial work, the memories, the diaries.
And he tried to establish an elegant language, shall we say,
but the main characteristic we notice in the chronicles
is the use of comparison.
He tried to shed light on daily events
by using comparisons to all kinds of cultural references,
mythological or literary or historical references.
He tried to elevate that which was trivial
comparing it to something that at the time was considered higher
and he had quite a vast cultural knowledge.
So I think that's one of the aspects.
In Chico's psychography of Humberto de Campos,
which begins less than 4 months after his death...
Humberto dies in December 1934,
and in late March 1935 Chico begins receiving his texts.
Roughly, in the first and third books of Humberto through Chico
there's a process of demonstrating knowledge
which was a manner of justifying the spiritual authorship.
Legitimacy.
So there's that worry about showing
that he who's speaking has profound knowledge
not only of Humberto de Campos' official work,
but also of the authors Humberto read.
There are many quotes of authors
- he used to quote. - He liked to quote.
I remember there are quotes in Chico's work
of books that made up Humberto's physical library.
His private library.
Right, Caroli? And Caroli went after that.
That's more obvious in the books
"Crônicas de Além-Túmulo" and "Novas Mensagens".
And in a codified, but just as obvious manner
in the book "Lázaro Redivivo".
Because of the lawsuit against Chico and FEB
brought upon by the family of the writer,
he signs "Lázaro Redivivo" as "Irmão X".
And there are many references to Humberto's work,
but in a codified manner,
differently from what happens
in the first books signed by Humberto de Campos,
in which he introduces himself as Humberto de Campos
and shows a vast knowledge
of the references the writer knew all about.
And in "Brasil, Coração do Mundo, Pátria do Evangelho"
there are a few more obvious passages
in which he does that on purpose, of course.
So there are several levels,
from paraphrase, which is simpler,
to more subtle references.
Does he paraphrase himself or does he quote other people?
The author of "Brasil, Coração do Mundo"
takes advantage of texts Humberto de Campos published
in order to make up the mediumistic book.
That which fits into a new context
and is also part of the official work,
- but with new meaning now. - Wow.
He also quotes authors he read, like Bilac, Antonio Vieira...
For instance, he takes passages from "Brasil Anedótico",
a book that Humberto de Campos wrote,
which is made up of passages
from several books on Brazilian history.
They are loose passages,
but in the mediumistic book he gives a sense to the loose texts,
in order to establish textual links with his work,
and justify his authorship.
And what's also interesting...
When "Reformador" published the first chapter
of that which would be "Brasil, Coração do Mundo",
- still in 1937... - It was published there?
"Reformador" published half of the book
- Wow! - between 1937 and 1938.
In the 1st chapter they made a point
of establishing a connection
not to the work of Humberto de Campos,
but to previous psychographies on the thesis according to which
the tree had been transplanted to Brazil.
Amazing!
And it's interesting for us to notice
how different connections are made through this book
so that, in a synthetic manner,
his work can have a wide reach
in relation to Brazil's history,
in relation to Humberto de Campos' authorship,
and in relation to a Brazilian spiritist history
prior to Chico Xavier.
Many different dialogues drawn from one single text.
When we know how to look,
we find several dialogues
and strong argumentation beyond the name.
The name is on top of several intertextual dialogues.
It's Humberto de Campos giving a thousand clues,
a thousand clues that he is who he is.
But we need glasses. Without them, we can't see.
- Caroli helps us. - He doesn't wear glasses.
- Haroldo, just a comment. - Of course.
Maybe Zé Otávio would be the best person for it,
but we can't forget to mention
how Humberto worked on historiography,
since we're talking about this. Him as an author.
It's very interesting, Aluizio,
how historiography in the 30s was booming
as far as what Brazil is, nationalistic principles,
even for crooked reasons, for authoritarianism...
But what calls our attention is that Humberto de Campos
deals beautifully with History. If he were a historian,
which he says he isn't and doesn't mean to be,
but he has such a range,
not only because of what he saw through his spiritual eyes...
He works with issues
our historiography is still struggling with...
I wouldn't say he's avant-garde because that doesn't exist,
but he works with such themes
and the historical narrative he proposes...
It's not just the spiritual content there.
As an author, it's as if he were manipulating elements
in a way that we, historians, haven't learned yet.
It's very significant in the book, and Zé Otávio worked on this a lot,
History, psychography and all these relations,
but we can't refrain from saying...
Especially in a few specific aspects,
I consider his work... The names, for instance.
What did he do, he quoted names
that were unknown to historians at the time.
So his richness is an intellectual richness, yes,
but he manipulates History in a spectacular manner.
I'm not discussing legitimacy from a historical standpoint,
but his narrative is spectacular in that sense.
He makes progress in many aspects...
And again, he makes us see things
that historiography today still doesn't see.
The names, the map he mentions... One of the themes in my chapter.
Andrea Bianco's map, which most people pass by,
and it's a correlation to the meaning of the name of Brazil
which shows his erudition, but it's much more than that,
he raises issues that historiography even today leaves aside,
because it can't handle them.
He is a very rich author in that sense as well.
What calls very much my attention and I wanted to ask you, Caroli,
is that the work seems to have several levels, several layers...
There's a literary aspect... No doubt he's a terrific writer.
But there's also the fine irony of the chronicler.
There are moments when he writes in a serious way...
For instance, the King. Dom João.
He describes the figure of the King
and you see he's criticizing his sloppy manners and all that,
but at the same time adding serious elements.
So I'd say it's a British irony,
a British humor... subtle.
Everybody's envious right now.
Enjoy it, Caroli. Everybody wants to jump at your coffee.
So it's interesting, Caroli, because...
not only on a literary level, but as Gisella puts it,
from the historical standpoint,
and just to think of how he connects issues spiritually...
There are several levels.
Gathering all this into one book
and making it a pleasant book to read,
to get to this synthesis, it's not a vulgar work.
- Do you share this opinion? - I agree.
That's Caroli.
Do you think he's from São Paulo or Minas Gerais?
It's no small thing. "I agree" from a post-doctoral scholar
on Humberto de Campos is THE "I agree".
Have you got that, Julio? We should open with his "I agree".
Gisela was talking and I remembered Paul Veyne,
a historian that works with a concept
that History is the romance of what is real.
He works with a nice image of the historian as a weaver.
But not the rough weaver who only works with one kind of thread,
but one who creates art, like this tapestry.
Humberto goes to the Biblical text,
he goes to the historical references,
he goes to the libraries of the spiritual realm,
and he weaves these threads of many colors,
and the result is a book that has these multiple layers.
Something else Gisella mentioned were the publications of the time.
We must remember that another important work
among the incarnates at that time
is the work of Sergio Buarque de Holanda.
So we see two journalists,
because Sergio Buarque was not a historian either,
but both of them passionate about History
using the literary resources they had
in order to make up the historical text.
So I remembered in that memorable "Podser" 23,
one of the questions was:
why Humberto de Campos, a man of letters,
and not a historian, to write this book?
It was meant to be a treatise on spiritual historiography, yes,
but also a pleasurable book to read, a romance of reality.
- And he says that. - He does. Emmanuel...
- Caroli's sentence. - I agree.
Now you, Gladston. I want you to...
You wrote...
Your chapter arrived
two days ago, like a caravelle,
with hoisted sails and the winds blowing...
- You saw the title? - ...that metaphor...
Yes, so tell us who you talked to up there
to come up with this metaphor.
Explore the metaphor. I want you to be Gladston.
When I thought of the chapter...
I was so lost I felt all at sea.
In this life I've never been on a ship,
but I imagine everywhere you look you only see water.
You lose all notions.
At the same time, we feel reality is where we are, in that boat.
Actually, we're either searching for a destiny or being taken somehow.
The sea pulls us into one direction and we try to go towards another.
It also has to do with that.
When we think of our condition as incarnates...
When Pólux is about to reincarnate as Carlos...
He was aware of the spiritual life,
but knew that when he got here
he'd have to deal with the appeal of the senses,
he'd lose a few notions he was teaching about.
So we really leave solid ground in a way,
there's a destiny and another possibility.
We may be headed for the Indies and end up somewhere else.
Besides, many people perish at sea.
Another aspect of the reincarnation issue.
That thing I said: "If you plant, it'll grow."
May I travel back in time and fly low?
Be my guest. Sail away.
Counting on your vibrations, 'cos we'll need concrete examples.
I'll stray from the theme, but I'm thinking of Ishmael.
When we think of an angel, even in the Bible,
we always think of angels doing nice things, sweet things,
but there's a moment with Herod, for instance,
when an angel touches him with death.
There's the situation of the angel that makes Zachary go mute.
- Exactly. - And the book shows that,
moments in History when we are faced with strong medication.
"If you plant, it'll grow" means free will. Now the examples.
Going back in time, ok?
Later on someone goes back to History and corrects what I said.
The spirits brings laws from higher realms
and we begin to think the laws of Brazil are utopic.
Yes, they are.
They come from Ishmael in a way, then we make it our way.
Letting prisoners spend Christmas at home, for instance.
Sure it's a good idea and comes from above.
But we complicate it.
- I'll have to give examples, ok? - Sure.
Alternative sentencing, for instance. Of course, crimes are different.
But what do we do with it? We complicate things.
Parole...
Cash benefits for the elderly and disabled people,
who cannot support themselves...
Children and adolescents' rights... Just to illustrate that,
when it leaves higher spheres, it's great, then it gets here...
Much of this utopic Brazil is Ishmael's Brazil.
But we take God's law and use it in a complicated way.
"If you plant, it'll grow", thinking of today's world...
At the time of Jesus, for instance,
Matthew quit being a tax collector and followed Jesus right away.
Matthew was also a publican and chose Jesus,
but many chose to follow the Roman empire.
at the time of Jesus.
The moment of being a martyr in the circus...
Denying Christ and letting Him be crucified was a choice then
and is a choice now. What's the challenge?
This plural Brazil is also globalized.
So we're dealing with very diverse contents.
We're living several reincarnations in one.
And what tree do we transplant sometimes?
When we speak of nationality... There are stereotypes, of course.
But they're not absolute.
When I speak of a nation, I'm speaking of us, ok?
- Sure. - Now we're here,
tomorrow in Italy, Germany, and so forth.
So for instance,
much of the German tendency of individualism
we began to absorb: living alone, separate garages, separate cars...
We can't have a family car,
to give someone a ride I have to change my itinerary,
I arrive late at work. Complicated individualism.
The thing with childbirth.
Once there was a research in a country...
I won't say Germany. I won't spoil the vibration here.
The most popular answer... But they've changed already,
they were very nice at the World Cup,
we should mention that, or we'll stay behind.
But they said having children wasn't good business.
They spoke of "how much you had to invest in a child
until you could reap the benefits".
Not to mention the risk of dying or becoming selfish like the dad.
So Germany, Italy...
So we think: "I won't have a baby, I barely earn enough for myself."
I have a friend who told me: "I'm glad I have a son,
or I'd have to buy for a daughter clothes that I'd want for myself."
Then God sent her a boy. Toned it down.
We were complaining there are no traffic lights in Bombay,
but we drive here as if there were no traffic lights.
Just an example...
Let us help Ishmael out, let us give concrete examples.
No, I was gonna give a great example,
but you won't want it, so...
Ok, then. Folks, you're compromising me spiritually.
Amazing how the vibration goes down.
You see?
But stop going down, for God's sake!
The lights were green and there were cars.
I didn't want to block the intersection,
so I stopped the car. One pedestrian hesitated,
and then decided to cross. Then a bunch of people came.
Like "we are many, so we are the law".
Louis XIV. So they kept on coming...
Then the traffic ahead cleared and I tried to move,
but they kept on coming: "He wants to pass now? My turn!"
Then the lights went red and I was on the intersection.
And the next bunch cursed me for clogging the intersection.
Why am I saying this? We've been aggressive.
We go to the supermarket and go to war at the cashier.
- Yeah... - But Jesus helps us evolve.
I'll give an example to raise up the vibration here.
We go: "Is the system down? She forgot her password?
Doesn't she know her credit card limit? No way!"
And there's the 10 items checkout war.
You start to count if people around have 11 items.
'Cos you have nothing to do. "He's got 12 items, what a nerve!"
We keep track of the others.
And to help us evolve, 'cos Ishmael never rests...
You're behind one person with few items,
then her kids keep coming with more stuff.
- The whole family! - And they just keep coming.
Then they ask you to save their place in line
and the guy behind you gets angry.
If you see a friend in line, ignore him, can't let him pass.
What do the spirits do about this?
We wanna live alone?
So they've invented apartment buildings.
They're great. There are dogs, the elevator breaks...
Because we have to evolve collectively.
We don't wanna be parents, but we're living longer.
So we don't want kids, but the elderly are kids in reverse.
I know that from my father... To sum up, what we're saying is:
Ishmael gives it, we complicate it, he corrects it, we complicate it...
Then an angel comes and make you go mute like Zachary.
- Exactly. - If you don't give, I'll take it.
- Exactly. - So what can we do?
If we don't give, life takes it away. Then we should resign ourselves.
Gladston, good you say that,
because when I read the book again
paying more attention, for this seminar...
I reread with closer attention for this seminar...
Tomorrow I'll talk a bit about this.
There were things about the book that moved me:
the number of archangels and cherubs crying with Jesus...
So... for instance, when Jesus comes to meet Hillel,
and Jesus begins to say: "My heart is saddened..."
Then Humberto de Campos describes
the feeling of anguish among cherubs and archangels.
And Hillel, who was the host...
Imagine you make an invitation
to a phalanx of angels and everyone starts to get sad...
Then he says: "Let's go to America, look for new people...
We can do something new." Begins to improvise.
Trying to cheer the archangels up.
I started to pay attention at how many times
Ishmael asks to see Jesus, and he opens his mouth,
but Humberto de Campos says he can't speak
and starts to sob
in front of Jesus.
There's a moment in the book when Hillel,
the governor of Portugal,
the spirit who governs Portugal,
asks to speak to Jesus
because he saw things were terribly complicated.
And he tells Jesus he'd like to do something.
And it's so interesting,
Jesus asks him: "What is your plan?"
At that moment I stopped, I marked the page,
I had to take a walk around the house,
because that was too much.
Because we have a romanticized view, Gladston.
Romanticized.
The rule of the game of evolution,
which is like chess...
There's one small rule that hinders everything:
the rule of free will.
The Creator Himself established that on this checkerboard
He doesn't force anyone, He doesn't impose anything.
Hillel, the spiritual governor of Portugal,
could just come and say:
"I'm the boss here, this is how it'll be."
But it's not like that. No.
It's a game of chess. At a certain point, Jesus tells him:
"We can't interfere with their free will, but...
we can alter the course of events."
You change one piece around, it alters the whole game.
And they could touch the incarnates
so they'd start playing on their team.
Basically that. And just to conclude,
He asks: "What is your plan?"
"My plan is to revive the House of Braganza."
And Jesus says: "But they're not ready."
"I don't see in this Royal family the elements you need."
Then Jesus turns to him and says:
"But we can make the most of it. I give you permission
to revive this House and carry on with your wish
for the spiritual elevation of Portugal."
That gave me a feeling, you know, Gladston, like...
This is for real.
The Marquis of Pombal was chosen by Hillel
as a missionary
and he failed,
failed utterly and completely.
He failed to the point of making Hillel cry
and Ishmael say:
"The one we chose for a task
has completely deviated from our plans."
When Dom Pedro I renounces, the book says:
"Even the spirits are surprised at his decision."
Then we begin to realize it's a serious game.
It's serious. Because we're used to thinking
that spiritual programming is a straight road:
"You're gonna be born on this day, at 5 a.m.".
But what if your mother is not dilated?
So I loved your chapter,
because spiritual programming is like entering a ship.
There are storms, strong winds,
something may happen to the boat, there are pirates...
And there the strategies begin.
Spiritual programming is a spider web.
You can change your course 360 degrees.
There are 360 degrees of possibilities.
You can even go backwards, you just can't surprise God.
That you can't do, because free will is limited.
That is amazing in the book...
And we see Ishmael celebrating as well.
For instance, when Tiradentes suffers his martyrdom,
Ishmael is there to welcome him:
"Now you've conquered the right
to coordinate the spiritual phalanxes that control politics
and your dream of freedom will come true."
And at the moment of declaration of independence,
who's there? Tiradentes and the spiritual phalanxes.
A wonderful feast.
Another beautiful moment
is when Princess Isabel signs the abolition.
Then Ishmael himself comes. A spiritual celebration.
Spiritual phalanxes of African spirits,
all of Ishmael's phalanxes,
then Ishmael himself comes and embraces the Princess.
And a man who was there senses it intuitively
and kneels at her feet.
Tiradentes and so on... All celebrating.
Like, my God! Goal!
"We did it!"
Such a longtime struggle...
But what happens? We arrive here, as spiritists,
and think it's gonna be easy.
That's there in the book.
Jesus says to Hillel:
"The House of Braganza is not ready,
but there's no other." There's no other country today
that's ready to do what's destined for Portugal.
There's no other.
So you gotta make do... with what you have.
That's how programming goes.
And we're having an opportunity now,
you know, Gladston, which is wonderful,
and this book has deeply moved me,
it has touched my feelings as a Brazilian,
not in terms of nationalism,
because it's not foolish patriotism,
it's not foolish patriotism,
even because this country is a heart.
Yesterday at the soccer game
you saw a Croatian entering the stadium
with a Croatian T-shirt
and his Brazilian wife with a Brazilian T-shirt.
Only here something like this happens.
So childish and foolish patriotism doesn't belong here,
because we're plural, we like to welcome.
So it gave me a feeling of Brazilianism,
a feeling of reverence...
reverence for those who have set foot here.
This seminar began with a recording...
That voice, before the ballet, it was Villa-Lobos'.
That was the original voice of Villa-Lobos, incarnate,
saying this country is a heart,
and that the heart is a metronome.
It's Villa-Lobos saying that.
Then you think of Chico Xavier, Eurípedes Barsanulfo,
Bezerra de Menezes, Bittencourt Sampaio,
who composed with Carlos Gomes...
Then you think: "My God, such people have been here..."
A challenge.
And we imagine: there are two possibilities, Gladston.
There's the possibility that we'll shine.
There's a chance we'll take our incarnation
and take so much advantage of it
that we surprise our spirit friends. You know how?
Getting 5 out of 10 right.
Because the forecast is a 3.5 grade.
Then you go and get a 5.5, or 6.
So there's a chance we'll face this
and turn the game around.
But, you know, Gladston, before I pass on to Romário,
I think spiritists are lacking a spirit of apostolate.
Like that pemphigus lady,
who started to take sick people into her home.
And the family said: "If they stay, we leave."
And she said: "Ok, bye. They stay."
And she set up a hospital, the family stayed and helped.
And we're complaining.
We complain nowadays
of our conditions.
We complain of our conditions.
And there are incarnates... Tadeu, from Araxá, for instance.
I met him when he was starting out.
A small house, like a Porziuncola,
with 4 sick people.
He bathed them, he did everything.
I think we're lacking this, you know, Gladston,
getting into that spirit,
"let's build something, let's do something,
let's act".
Because they want it.
The most difficult thing there now...
I think Ishmael must be going through all spiritist centers
trying to send a message, but he can't.
Because we're not in sync.
We're not in sync anymore
with the project.
And we know his great project today
is evangelizing the masses.
Ishmael's project today is evangelizing the masses,
educating the masses.
That's what's being asked.
And we need...
It's lovely what you wrote,
all of that,
because we must focus.
We must focus.
When we were thinking of that chapter,
the spiritual management of Brazil
and who would write it,
Julio Adriano said: "Gladston.
For his experience with homeless shelters."
It's this perspective of Brazil as a sheltering place.
Since Gladston was talking of the manner
in which Ishmael interferes,
we must realize that there is free will,
but there's something over which Jesus has total control:
who's born, where that person's born and when it should happen.
- And who goes away when. - And who returns.
And when.
For instance, in the chapter "The Africans in Brazil",
Ishmael looks for Jesus in anguish because slavery had begun,
and the plan was to bring Africans to Brazil, but no slavery.
Jesus calms Ishmael down saying:
"Don't worry. Those who are slave owners today,
how are they going to reincarnate?"
- As slaves. - As slaves.
And in this process... For instance,
how could they make Indians and Portuguese mingle?
Easy, make the Portuguese reincarnate as Indians first,
so when they see the Portuguese,
they'll be fascinated and want to get close.
Then the mixture of races happens.
This control Jesus has over who reincarnates where and when
is what makes all the difference.
It wins the game. But Romário wanted to say something.
Our talk is coming to an end, do you believe it?
- No, really? - Yes.
So let's stretch it a little bit.
- Almost at the end. - Can't be.
So you'll speak, then Gisella, then we...
So we can wrap it up. You were saying...
Recapping the Cross in relation to all this you're saying...
I found a small, little-known book by Emmanuel, "A Paz",
one of those with short texts on several topics,
and he speaks of the cross. He interprets the cross.
Of course there are many crosses of many shapes and sizes...
The Ankh cross, from Egypt, the Maltese cross,
the classic Christian cross that we know...
But he draws a general profile
particularly mirrored on the cross that we know.
He speaks of the poles...
And he speaks of how the cross
is necessarily made of straight poles.
We've mentioned how free will allows us a thousand deviations,
thousands of them, almost uncountable,
except for those issues
our reincarnation planning restrains
in a clear manner,
but beyond those key aspects,
despite all the aspects that guide us,
we have the capacity to mess everything up.
But we still have this symbol of rectitude
up there in the sky,
in the firmament, every day, or every night, if you will,
ever since we started to look up,
from Brazil, we have that symbol.
A symbol of rectitude, of verticality,
this verticality that invites us to look up
and keep in sync with God,
and at the same time the symbol of horizontality:
Emmanuel speaks of the horizontality of the embrace,
the horizontal arms that invite, that embrace.
And I'd also say these horizontal arms
that invite us to interact with each other.
It's the verticality of our contact with God
and horizontality of our interaction
that meet up at a central spot
so that we're invited to search for this balance.
And one last curious fact,
one the last things I learned about the cross:
in this change of position we spoke of,
the precession,
the Southern Cross began
to point to the celestial south,
began to work as this celestial, eternal compass,
around 2.000 years before Christ,
about the time - correct me if I'm wrong -,
that the Hebrew people, with the figure of Abraham,
began to organize themselves to receive Jesus.
Before that, the Cross existed, but didn't point to the south,
it pointed to the southwest or southeast, I don't recall.
Around 2.000 years before, it began,
for someone looking up from the earth,
to function as a guide.
And we were speaking of free will,
like everything is liable to change,
but there's a very interesting thing:
besides precession,
there's a movement stars make that changes their places.
It's as slow as precession, because they're very far.
They take so long to move in relation to one another -
the Three Marys, for instance, to go from this to that -
that we say they're fixed, but they change in time.
And around 3.000 years from now, a little bit more,
not only the Cross will not point to the south anymore,
but it will lose the shape of a cross.
We can interpret that in many ways,
but what came to mind when I read that
was that Jesus is planning for us to have 3.000 years
- to settle the cross in our hearts. - For the cross to do its job.
For it's the symbol of human redemption.
So... 3.000 years.
Gisella, wrap it up for us?
What Gladston said reminded me of Brazil as an opportunity,
- which is what you're saying, right? - Yes.
Something that calls my attention in Caminha's letter
is that the first thing the captain sees, after the algae, the birds,
is a mount. And the captain immediately...
When he sees the land,
he doesn't see a land, a forest,
or a tree, he sees a mount.
And he says: "That's the Easter Mount",
because they were in the octave of Easter,
which is an important week for Christian culture,
and in the Eastern tradition is a week of redemption.
- And the week of crucifixion. - Yes.
But we learn, when we get to the spiritist center,
it's as if we were climbing a mount.
The mount is a symbol.
Jesus goes to the mount for the sermon...
There's Mount Sinai, Mount Tabor...
There are several moments in the Gospel
when a mount appears in a significant way.
And it called my attention
because when he sees land, he sees the mount,
and this opportunity is as if we were raising up our vibration.
Jesus climbed the mount to pray, to meditate...
And we climbed the mount to hear Him a few times as well,
as in the sermon.
When the captain sees the land and the mount,
it's as if he were saying: "Look! Our new opportunity.
There's another mount."
So may we learn that the more we elevate ourselves,
the more this opportunity will open up,
the more in tune we will truly be with what's important.
- Exactly. - And it's Brazil.
Exactly. Folks, it's over.
It's over and we want to thank Deco,
who was responsible for this set, him and his team.
There's much of his touch here, in this beauty and delicacy.
And thank everybody here...
Aluizio, our maestro in the book "Celeiro de Redenção"...
He's conducting this marvelous orchestra here.
And I say "orchestra" because...
the central thesis of "Brasil, Coração do Mundo"
is a thesis that must be read attentively.
Because Humberto de Campos says: "In the concert of nations,
Brazil has a mission."
So we must think of an orchestra.
He doesn't say Brazil is better than the others.
Each nation in the planet is a musician in Christ's symphony.
And Brazil was given a piece to play in this melody,
which together with the other nations
will make up the symphony Jesus wants to implant on Earth.
We should remember that. He is the maestro,
like Emmanuel was the maestro of Chico Xavier's mediumship
and chose as first violinist Humberto de Campos
for a marvelous solo, which is this work,
"Brasil, Coração do Mundo, Pátria do Evangelho".
So what do we have to say to the internauts watching us,
many of them in other countries:
this is not pride, this is not foolish patriotism,
this is Galilee of the nations,
it's Christ with open arms,
this is Brazilian kitchen,
and everybody who wishes to learn from Jesus' heart
will go through Brazil,
for a very simple reason:
In this country were born Bittencourt Sampaio,
Bezerra de Menezes, Eurípedes Barsanulfo,
Francisco Cândido Xavier, and I could go on for 2 hours
saying names and quoting works,
including works of mediums
who are still incarnate, fulfilling their mission...
It's a joy, it's a blessing...
Imagine... Imagine...
Or as they say in the northeast: "Just ya think..."
Just ya think...
Just ya think of yurself somewhere else now.
Good that you're here. Thank you for being here.
My friend, don’t you forget
for the Christmas of the Lord
to open the doors of goodness
to the calling of love
share whatever goods you may
by the light of devotion
clothe the undressed, console the sad
in the feast of the heart
but don’t you forget yourself
in the banquet of Jesus
follow His divine example
of peace, truth and light
make a new commitment
in the joy of Christmas
for personal effort
is the path each one should take
do you suffer? wait and trust
make sure you remember
that only the pain of the world
can regenerate us
have you been betrayed? forgive
forget the evil for the good
God is the Supreme Justice
you should not judge anyone
make a new commitment
in the joy of Christmas
for personal effort
is the path each one should take
do you long for worldly goods?
calm your heart
sometimes at the end of the road
there’s gall and disillusion
have you had no rewards?
keep this teaching by heart
the gift of doing good
is the best reward of all
make a new commitment
in the joy of Christmas
for personal effort
is the path each one should take
do you wish for alms from Heaven?
make sure you do not ignore
that the Lord keeps the share
that you may deserve
have you gone desperate? remember
in the shadows of your days
that you haven’t placed your hopes
in the lights of God’s love
make a new commitment
in the joy of Christmas
for personal effort
is the path each one should take
Christmas! divine memory
over earthly uproar
get closer to the poor
the ones elected by Heaven
but listen, brother! go farther
when exalting the Lord
see if you’ve already conquered humility
the eternal lymph of love
make a new commitment
in the joy of Christmas
for personal effort
is the path everyone should take
my friend, don't you forget
for the Christmas of the Lord
to open the doors of goodness
to the calling of love